Edene

[thearabchildren]

I'm back from Edene, and I have a lot to say, but I am so tired of politics right now what with the İnönü Cumhuriyeti holding its annual game of Democracy™ tomorrow. It's not that I can't talk about it, but that I can't talk about it as extensively as most of y'all deserve. So expect that later. For now, I wanted to share with you a couple pictures I thought would please you. From the home of our hosts:



And down the street:

[eg0u61c9]

Thanks man.

I like the Ahmede Xani pic a lot..

[kurd-sthanam]

hey arab, how is it going with votes there? how do people look to AKP this vote time? i dont like the ehmedé xaní pic much because it looks like shoe-carpet

[thearabchildren]

*Sigh* the AKP.

My wife was right, the AKP is still on the rise. There's no real alternative for most Turks (the CHP is not an alternative, and the whole country will be better off when that sorry excuse for a party just gives up forever), and the party's disproportionate media influence (yes, I am willing to defend the assertion that the AKP is more disproportionately loved than even the CHP, even in comparison to its popular support, which is real, sadly), along with the CHP's pathetically weak rhetoric... it's inevitable. We can't avoid more AKP seats. It doesn't really matter, because elections are nonsense. What is relevant, and I continue to repeat this to anyone who will listen, is the political culture of the masses it supposedly reflects (or at least loosely parallels).

The family I was staying with is heavily BDP supporting and of course subscribes to the cult of personality for Öcalan. This bothers me because it is the masses who protest and resist, and they don't need Öcalan to tell them to do that. Indeed, it plays into the regime's propaganda to suggest otherwise ("the Kurds are puppets" and such). I tried to talk them into boycotting the elections, but it was to no avail. According to them the BDP is gonna do better this elections than the DTP last time.

I dunno, I'm not sure what your specific question is? So I'm just kind of ranting. The BDP supporters all despise the AKP, which of course I like, because the AKP is a garbage party and it deserves to be despised. I don't think many Kurds, except the most assimilated, are fooled by the CHP. I think only the most religious Kurds support the AKP (that is, those so religious that literally the only thing which matters to them is Islam), plus those who are really assimilated and are susceptible to populist rants, just by their personal character. I wish the media would broadcast more Kerdoğan's recent anti-Kurdish outburst, but I guess it wouldn't matter much. Kerdoğan's arrogance is really out of control. I just... yeah. Pose a specific question either about the so-called "elections" or about my experience in Edene and I'll get back to you.

[New Corduene]

*Sigh* the AKP.

My wife was right, the AKP is still on the rise. There's no real alternative for most Turks (the CHP is not an alternative, and the whole country will be better off when that sorry excuse for a party just gives up forever), and the party's disproportionate media influence (yes, I am willing to defend the assertion that the AKP is more disproportionately loved than even the CHP, even in comparison to its popular support, which is real, sadly), along with the CHP's pathetically weak rhetoric... it's inevitable. We can't avoid more AKP seats. It doesn't really matter, because elections are nonsense. What is relevant, and I continue to repeat this to anyone who will listen, is the political culture of the masses it supposedly reflects (or at least loosely parallels).

The family I was staying with is heavily BDP supporting and of course subscribes to the cult of personality for Öcalan. This bothers me because it is the masses who protest and resist, and they don't need Öcalan to tell them to do that. Indeed, it plays into the regime's propaganda to suggest otherwise ("the Kurds are puppets" and such). I tried to talk them into boycotting the elections, but it was to no avail. According to them the BDP is gonna do better this elections than the DTP last time.

I dunno, I'm not sure what your specific question is? So I'm just kind of ranting. The BDP supporters all despise the AKP, which of course I like, because the AKP is a garbage party and it deserves to be despised. I don't think many Kurds, except the most assimilated, are fooled by the CHP. I think only the most religious Kurds support the AKP (that is, those so religious that literally the only thing which matters to them is Islam), plus those who are really assimilated and are susceptible to populist rants, just by their personal character. I wish the media would broadcast more Kerdoğan's recent anti-Kurdish outburst, but I guess it wouldn't matter much. Kerdoğan's arrogance is really out of control. I just... yeah. Pose a specific question either about the so-called "elections" or about my experience in Edene and I'll get back to you.

MY FAVORITE JEW IS BACK!

Kindly tell me all you know about Adana! The place cannot be considered a part of the 'traditional Kurdistan', yet due to the increasing number of Kurds there, it is now counted as another Kurdish city, or sort of, especially the most eastern part of the province.
Kindly explain how that is! What is the number of Kurds there and how do they perceive the Kurdish political struggle there!? Just talk generally about the situation.

[thearabchildren]

K.

So, first of all, the Kurds there acknowledge that Edene is not part of Kurdistan. This is universally accepted. That being said, the BDP is far more open there than in Stenbol or Îzmîr or what have you. I asked some of the elders there what they would do if a Kurdish state was declared tomorrow and they said "Move back to Mêrdîn". The eldest actually spent a few minutes when we were alone insulting Edene ("It is dirty and ugly") to me and insisting that Mêrdîn was much more beautiful ("When we return to Mêrdîn, all our sicknesses go away, we no longer have to take medicine...") Also (partially as a result of the heavy Kurdish presence), the Trotskyists get actual public love (and use posters which say "We are on the side of the Kurdish people"), and the general atmosphere is more Left Wing in general. They're hoping for a BDP parliamentarian from Edene today. We'll see. They are certainly much freer to gather and proclaim their national identity than Kurds in large Western Turkish cities.

Kurdish is not the primary language of the city, but it is spoken regularly and publicly along with Turkish, so much more like Qers than Îzmîr in that respect. The Kurds consider themselves a minority in Edene, but I would say are treated better there than what I'm used to.

The accent of the spoken Turkish in Edene is quite a bit more beautiful than that in the West of the country. I like it very much.

Although the Kurds I was staying with were from Mêrdîn, none of them spoke Arabic, which saddened me slightly. But I can get trilingual (Arabic/Kurdish/Turkish) conversation from the Mêrdînîs here in Îzmîr.

My wife switched into Kurdish, meaning rather than responding to Kurdish with Turkish as is her habit, she spent about two minutes speaking Kurdish herself. Her accent was about what I would've expected. But it meant a lot to me to hear her speaking Kurdish.

[thearabchildren]

For those of you playing along at home, you should reload this in 3 hours: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_ge ... 11#Results

My wife and her sister didn't vote. Every other Turkish citizen I know presently residing inside the country that I asked did.

[thearabchildren]

So a clarifying Edene point: My perception is that a sizable percentage (possibly the majority) of Edene Kurds perceive the PKK as the only guarantor of their rights as Kurds. They perceive the BDP as the only chance for peaceful reconciliation with the Turkish state, provided the state chooses to deal with the movement the BDP represents, rather than continuing to villify it. Everyone I spoke to said they preferred a peaceful federal resolution to the conflict, with union with Iraqi Kurdistan (even after the latter has become a sovereign and internationally recognised Kurdish state) viewed as a "long-term goal" (not one person I spoke to had ever crossed over the "border", even the most radical and even those who had been to other countries). The general feeling was that, while this was the preferable method of achieving liberation, the Turkish state would not accept it and thus more war and forceable secession was likely. The younger the people I spoke with, the more optimism they had for a peaceful federal resolution. Edene has defined neighbourhoods, so keep in mind I am speaking with the most Kurdish residents of the city, in a neighbourhood where more or less everyone shares these views, but that there wasn't a feeling of hostility between the (very pro-BDP) neighbourhood I was in and other (more Islamist, more social-democratic or more Turkish nationalist) neighbourhoods. Nobody self-censored when we were in public. I have to say that overall I liked the city's culture quite a bit. Much more open and less paranoid than certain other Turkish cities (they know who they are and what they did).

[kurd-sthanam]

*Sigh* the AKP.

My wife was right, the AKP is still on the rise. There's no real alternative for most Turks (the CHP is not an alternative, and the whole country will be better off when that sorry excuse for a party just gives up forever), and the party's disproportionate media influence (yes, I am willing to defend the assertion that the AKP is more disproportionately loved than even the CHP, even in comparison to its popular support, which is real, sadly), along with the CHP's pathetically weak rhetoric... it's inevitable. We can't avoid more AKP seats. It doesn't really matter, because elections are nonsense. What is relevant, and I continue to repeat this to anyone who will listen, is the political culture of the masses it supposedly reflects (or at least loosely parallels).

The family I was staying with is heavily BDP supporting and of course subscribes to the cult of personality for Öcalan. This bothers me because it is the masses who protest and resist, and they don't need Öcalan to tell them to do that. Indeed, it plays into the regime's propaganda to suggest otherwise ("the Kurds are puppets" and such). I tried to talk them into boycotting the elections, but it was to no avail. According to them the BDP is gonna do better this elections than the DTP last time.

I dunno, I'm not sure what your specific question is? So I'm just kind of ranting. The BDP supporters all despise the AKP, which of course I like, because the AKP is a garbage party and it deserves to be despised. I don't think many Kurds, except the most assimilated, are fooled by the CHP. I think only the most religious Kurds support the AKP (that is, those so religious that literally the only thing which matters to them is Islam), plus those who are really assimilated and are susceptible to populist rants, just by their personal character. I wish the media would broadcast more Kerdoğan's recent anti-Kurdish outburst, but I guess it wouldn't matter much. Kerdoğan's arrogance is really out of control. I just... yeah. Pose a specific question either about the so-called "elections" or about my experience in Edene and I'll get back to you.

what are you total crazy?! why boycot the democracy block?! öcalan has nothing to do with the votings. if you must select either öcalan or erdogan wich would you vote? erdogan? I'm glad that the democracy block have now 35 parlamentary members (still low), and much glad about the very good members but sorry for Ferhat Tunc. the kurdish votes for kurds are far more important to kurds than the votes of turks to AKP or CHP.

[New Corduene]

what are you total crazy?! why boycot the democracy block?! öcalan has nothing to do with the votings. if you must select either öcalan or erdogan wich would you vote? erdogan? I'm glad that the democracy block have now 35 parlamentary members (still low), and much glad about the very good members but sorry for Ferhat Tunc. the kurdish votes for kurds are far more important to kurds than the votes of turks to AKP or CHP.

I agree. For some unknown reason, this guy seems to be obsessed with boycotts! Which one is better; having 36 MPs or having none!?

[New Corduene]

K.

So, first of all, the Kurds there acknowledge that Edene is not part of Kurdistan. This is universally accepted. That being said, the BDP is far more open there than in Stenbol or Îzmîr or what have you. I asked some of the elders there what they would do if a Kurdish state was declared tomorrow and they said "Move back to Mêrdîn". The eldest actually spent a few minutes when we were alone insulting Edene ("It is dirty and ugly") to me and insisting that Mêrdîn was much more beautiful ("When we return to Mêrdîn, all our sicknesses go away, we no longer have to take medicine...") Also (partially as a result of the heavy Kurdish presence), the Trotskyists get actual public love (and use posters which say "We are on the side of the Kurdish people"), and the general atmosphere is more Left Wing in general. They're hoping for a BDP parliamentarian from Edene today. We'll see. They are certainly much freer to gather and proclaim their national identity than Kurds in large Western Turkish cities.

Kurdish is not the primary language of the city, but it is spoken regularly and publicly along with Turkish, so much more like Qers than Îzmîr in that respect. The Kurds consider themselves a minority in Edene, but I would say are treated better there than what I'm used to.

The accent of the spoken Turkish in Edene is quite a bit more beautiful than that in the West of the country. I like it very much.

Although the Kurds I was staying with were from Mêrdîn, none of them spoke Arabic, which saddened me slightly. But I can get trilingual (Arabic/Kurdish/Turkish) conversation from the Mêrdînîs here in Îzmîr.

My wife switched into Kurdish, meaning rather than responding to Kurdish with Turkish as is her habit, she spent about two minutes speaking Kurdish herself. Her accent was about what I would've expected. But it meant a lot to me to hear her speaking Kurdish.

So a clarifying Edene point: My perception is that a sizable percentage (possibly the majority) of Edene Kurds perceive the PKK as the only guarantor of their rights as Kurds. They perceive the BDP as the only chance for peaceful reconciliation with the Turkish state, provided the state chooses to deal with the movement the BDP represents, rather than continuing to villify it. Everyone I spoke to said they preferred a peaceful federal resolution to the conflict, with union with Iraqi Kurdistan (even after the latter has become a sovereign and internationally recognised Kurdish state) viewed as a "long-term goal" (not one person I spoke to had ever crossed over the "border", even the most radical and even those who had been to other countries). The general feeling was that, while this was the preferable method of achieving liberation, the Turkish state would not accept it and thus more war and forceable secession was likely. The younger the people I spoke with, the more optimism they had for a peaceful federal resolution. Edene has defined neighbourhoods, so keep in mind I am speaking with the most Kurdish residents of the city, in a neighbourhood where more or less everyone shares these views, but that there wasn't a feeling of hostility between the (very pro-BDP) neighbourhood I was in and other (more Islamist, more social-democratic or more Turkish nationalist) neighbourhoods. Nobody self-censored when we were in public. I have to say that overall I liked the city's culture quite a bit. Much more open and less paranoid than certain other Turkish cities (they know who they are and what they did).

Interesting read, thanks!

[thearabchildren]

I wasn't saying the Kurds should boycott the Democracy block, I was saying the BDP previously stated they were going to boycott the upcoming elections, and then a block of independents was announced which is obviously backed by and composed of BDP. This was bad strategising. If they had never announced a boycott, they could've run a better and more efficient campaign (with no one making fun of the word "independents"). If they had stuck to the idea of boycott strictly, they could've done something productive with it (gotten all BDP-sympathetic provinces ready to treat the elections how Colemerg treated Kerdoğan's visit, talked non-Kurdist Leftist parties in the same region into joining in solidarity, perhaps even talked to the MHP about how really, even if we hate each other, we both hate those arrogant money-hungry fuckers in the AKP more, and how about you take a stand with us on this one, although scratch that last one, because of course the mainstream Turkish media would not report such a statement, because it would not fit into the narrative they need).

[New Corduene]

BDP stated they were going to boycott the election when six of their members were barred from electing themselves.
That was the right decision at the time which motivated the people to fill the streets, countless articles blamed Turkey for that and ultimately the decision was reversed.

(gotten all BDP-sympathetic provinces ready to treat the elections how Colemerg treated Kerdoğan's visit,

Even if such move was possible, what good would that do!?

perhaps even talked to the MHP

Seriously?

[Djembe]

perhaps even talked to the MHP

Seriously?

Why not? Both BDP and MHP are nationalist party!!!! A lots of common.

[talsor]

perhaps even talked to the MHP

Seriously?

Why not? Both BDP and MHP are nationalist party!!!! A lots of common.

John loves apples and Nazis love apples , then John must be a Nazi . .