Hypothetical Question for Kurdish People

[Azamat]

This is a crucial subject, which we often avoid talking of in fear of realising a much less idealized future. I'm wondering how our main two RBK intellectuals - Arab Children and New Corduene, will contribute to this discussion

[Djembe]

Independence. the KRG has proved that no one cares about Kurds as much as Kurds. In 5 years the KRG has built 3000 new schools where as under Arab rule, in 70 years they built 3000 schools, likewise under Arab rule we have 2 universities, while now we have 20 again in just 5 years. My own opinion is that I do not want to live with a Turk, and I'm not racist I just don't want to live with a Turk

I appreciate your honesty. And I agree with your reason you listed here in terms of the lack of services by Arab rule/Turkish rule in Kurdistan. At least, unlike BDP, you do not have an hidden agenda. However,if this is ultimate objective, it is waste of time of Kurdish people of Turkey for the current process of 'we only want democratic, cultural rights within Turkey' blah blahs.

So? that is not of our concern, your country can sort it's own trash can out.

No, actually it is your concern. With independent agenda and uniting Kurdistan, not only Turkey, you will have to face against Iran, Syria and Iraq. Southern Kurdistan only exist due to Iraqi occupation. I doubt you will have similar status when USA is gone and the power shifts in Iraq and Syria.

If that is the agenda, regional countries will take action and my question is what is your reaction?

Not necessarily, we are in no rush, and independence will not come soon, what we have in Iraq right now is virtual independence which can be used as a platform, we are building up our economy off course nature has not been kind to us becuase we are landlocked, however in 50 years when Kurdish population in Anatolia doubles, who knows where else Kurds will be a majority, what we need to do is make the KRG attractive, to show Kurds in Anatolia that a free Kurdistan would be much more viable, a modern and high-tech Kurdistan will attract Kurds, they will see that it can be done and the lies from the Turks will eventually fade.

That is an optimistic scenario. There is no guarantee that KRG will be viable, high tech. Also, with the economic and political growth of Turkey, Turkey would be more of attraction place for Kurdish who do not have the same 'nationalist' agenda you have. Can I point out that there are approx 25 percent Kurdish population and BDP gets only 6 percent support nationally.

You said you have no rush. What they know is known by others too. Now, there is a constitution will be re-written in Turkey. What if Kurdish cultural, democratic, political autonomy accomplished in Turkey, do you think there will be same motivation for Kurdish people for independence. You may have strong Kurdish nationalism, I accept that, but can you speak for everyone else?

As for us losing a war, not necessarily, no land force can beat us in our mountains, it would be impossible for any force without air-support to beat us in our mountains, and there is evidence of that as we beat the Iraqi army in 1964 as back then the Iraqi air force was not that great, they however acquired a bigger air force later on which helped them against us, since we had virtually no air defense, so you see Kurdistan is easy to defend, we just need good air-defense and a trained force, also the middle east is going through a hard time, and it's being split between shia-sunni lines, and since we are split between two sunni, and two shia countries, there is room for negotiation, like I said for an independent Kurdistan planning is required, and we are in no rush.

I am not going to even comment this as Kurdish people has no chance in any confrontation of classic war against Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Syria.

[ideas]

I appreciate your honesty. And I agree with your reason you listed here in terms of the lack of services by Arab rule/Turkish rule in Kurdistan. At least, unlike BDP, you do not have an hidden agenda. However, it is ultimate objective, it is waste of time of Kurdish people of Turkey for the current process of 'we only want democratic, cultural rights within Turkey' blah blahs.

That is my opinion not the BDP.

No, actually it is your concern. With independent agenda and uniting Kurdistan, not only Turkey, you will have to face against Iran, Syria and Iraq. Southern Kurdistan only exist due to Iraqi occupation. I doubt you will have similar status when USA is gone and the power shifts in Iraq and Syria.

If that is the agenda, regional countries will take action and my question is what is your reaction?

Can we compare the 20,000 tribe men that used AK's with no training to the highly trained, increasingly armed 375,000 Kurdish army today? Iraq with the help of several other nations could not fully stop our 20,000 men, and saddams army was much stronger than the trash that is considered the Iraqi army today, it will take years for Iraq to get close to what it used to and by the time, our army will be much more efficient too.

Iraq is divided among sunni-shia ideologies, and they can't agree on who can walk through the door first, let along try and stop us, likewise the same is starting to happen in Syria.

That is an optimistic scenario. There is no guarantee that KRG will be viable, high tech. Also, with the economic and political growth of Turkey, Turkey would be more of attraction place for Kurdish who do not have the same 'nationalist' agenda you have. Can I point out that there are approx 25 percent Kurdish population and BDP gets only 6 percent support nationally.

Well, already the KRG has a GDP of $4250, we have 45 billion+ barrels of oil and 300 TCF of gas, that combined with a small population means fast development, and in just 5 years the KRG has attracted $17 billion of non-energy investment. If people want to move to Western Turkey they are free to, however no amount of money will change the attitude of the average Kurds, and recent polls conducted by Turks show that it is Turks that do no want to live with Turks, and I personally hope that keeps up.

Besides I said that the KRG can be used as model, to show Kurds in Anatolia what they too can achieve, and ultimately relying on Turks will not benefit them.

You said you have no rush. What they know is known by others too. Now, there is a constitution will be re-written in Turkey. What if Kurdish cultural, democratic, political autonomy accomplished in Turkey, do you think there will be same motivation for Kurdish people for independence. You may have strong Kurdish nationalism, I accept that, but can you speak for everyone else?

All I'll say is that with cultural rights, the re-educating of Kurds can begin, and that is entirely their choice, if one day they decide to go for a free Kurdistan that is their choice, and I'm not a 'nationalist' history has showed me that no body cares for Kurds, like Kurds do, we have a saying 'no friends but the mountains'

I am not going to even comment this as Kurdish people has no chance in any confrontation of classic war against Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Syria.

The divided Iraq? the dying syria? and the sanctioned Iran? sure, no we don't, your right, that is a well analyzed and well structured reply to what I had written. Like I said, no land force can beat us:-

A people called the Carduchoi are mentioned in Xenophon's Anabasis. They inhabited the mountains north of the Tigris in 401 BC, living in well-provisioned villages. They were enemies to the king (of Persia), as were the Greek mercenaries with Xenophon, but their response to thousands of armed and desperate strangers was hostile. They had no heavy troops who could face the battle-hardened hoplites, but they used longbows and slings effectively, and for the Greeks the "seven days spent in traversing the country of the Carduchians had been one long continuous battle, which had cost them more suffering than the whole of their troubles at the hands of the king and Tissaphernes put together."

19th-century scholars, such as George Rawlinson, identified Corduene and Carduchi with the modern Kurds, considering that Carduchi was the ancient lexical equivalent of "Kurdistan". This view is supported by some recent academic sources which have considered Corduene as proto-Kurdish or as equivalent to modern-day Kurdistan.

[Djembe]

That is my opinion not the BDP.

There are many indications that BDP, maybe not officially, but there are many who are not declaring the objective of independence and uniting Kurdistan. Here is the 'psych' of a typical Kemalist (lol). We should not give any freedom to 'Mountain Kurds', they will want more. Or, we should have a bargain in a position, even though, 'Mountain Kurds (this is a sarcasm ok) deserve their cultural rights, democratic rights, we should not give them, because they will want more. So give them little, because that is how we bargain.

So this trust issue actually creating 'biggest obstacle' or 'block' to improve Kurdish rights support from Turkish side. But that is another story.

Can we compare the 20,000 tribe men that used AK's with no training to the highly trained, increasingly armed 375,000 Kurdish army today? Iraq with the help of several other nations could not fully stop our 20,000 men, and saddams army was much stronger than the trash that is considered the Iraqi army today, it will take years for Iraq to get close to what it used to and by the time, our army will be much more efficient too.

I say, you are miscalculating the warfare. Remember you are not fighting with Iraq. Your enemy now is Turkey which is one of the biggest NATO army and strongest Army in the region. Do not talk about 20,000 tribe men guerrilla warfare. Turkey can not be brutal to PKK as they would be in classic warfare. Southern Iraq has population which is almost as big as Turkish Army or Iranian army ready to destroy you within a week.

Iraq is divided among sunni-shia ideologies, and they can't agree on who can walk through the door first, let along try and stop us, likewise the same is starting to happen in Syria.

This is another miscalculation, in my opinion. Arabs may have competition within, but once it is time to take care of 'Northern problem', they will show their muscle. The only reason Souther Kurdistan exist now, the way they are is 'occupation'.

I am not sure about 4250 GDP per capita, it is little too much. And you have oil but if you can't sell it what is the point to have. How are you going to sell it when you depending on Turkey.

, and recent polls conducted by Turks show that it is Turks that do no want to live with Turks, and I personally hope that keeps up.

Can you correct the statement above. I think there is some typo.

All I'll say is that with cultural rights, the re-educating of Kurds can begin, and that is entirely their choice, if one day they decide to go for a free Kurdistan that is their choice, and I'm not a 'nationalist' history has showed me that no body cares for Kurds, like Kurds do, we have a saying 'no friends but the mountains'

Well, I think you stolen this from Turkish language. Anyway, many Kurds have different priorities. I have even Kurdish in my family who do not really have any 'nationalist' ideas. I can see you do but people are different.

The divided Iraq? the dying syria? and the sanctioned Iran? sure, no we don't, your right, that is a well analyzed and well structured reply to what I had written. Like I said, no land force can beat us:-

Thanks for the comments by the way.

[Kulka]

All I'll say is that with cultural rights, the re-educating of Kurds can begin, and that is entirely their choice, if one day they decide to go for a free Kurdistan that is their choice, and I'm not a 'nationalist' history has showed me that no body cares for Kurds, like Kurds do, we have a saying 'no friends but the mountains'

Well, I think you stolen this from Turkish language.

yes, we stole everything from these kind turks, now we want to steal their land. we are very bad people, thieves, thieves....

[Djembe]

yes, we stole everything from these kind turks, now we want to steal their land. we are very bad people, thieves, thieves....

Kulka. I think you are a sociopath and you need some ganja.

[Kulka]

nothing else?
you comeing to kurdish forum and you write things like that - what you expect? you expect us to clap our hands? suprisingly not all of us arfe traitors and not all of us will applaud your posts.

why you dont remember what turks stolen from other people?

[Kulka]

by the way - only sociopath? not "retarded bitch" as your turkish fellows used to call people who dare to love their country? if my love for Kurdistan is sociopathy for you - then YES, YES, YES, - i am sociopath 100% and i am proud of that

[Djembe]

nothing else?
you comeing to kurdish forum and you write things like that - what you expect? you expect us to clap our hands? suprisingly not all of us arfe traitors and not all of us will applaud your posts.

why you dont remember what turks stolen from other people?

Kulka.

I wrote things like what!

[Djembe]

by the way - only sociopath? not "retarded bitch" as your turkish fellows used to call people who dare to love their country? if my love for Kurdistan is sociopathy for you - then YES, YES, YES, - i am sociopath 100% and i am proud of that

Be humble. I did not come up with sociopath not because of your love for Kurdistan. I come up with that because of your lack of sense of humor. I figured only sociopaths with no social skills would react like that.

Look, you are liability to not only Kurdish People, also you are liability to humanity. If you don't get the 'stolen' innuendo even there is a attached to it. I figured you are complete sociopath. Now, I am even thinking that you are a psychopath.

[Kulka]

you forget to call me "retarded bitch" like your mates used to do.
and excuse me - if you think that i will injoy jokes about kurdish issue - you must be psyhopath. How can i have a sense of humor in front of all sufferings and prosecutions of kurdish people? are you normal, turk? soon you will expect us to laugh at hundreds kurdish kids in turkish prison whom turkis consider as terrorist supporters. or at Kurds who was beaten by turkish so called police because they want to celebrate Newroz. or the guy who was beaten at the airport, coz he had Kurdistan as a birthplace in his ID.
you must be completly out of brain if you think that we consider this confilct in a term of "sense of humor".

this is my sense of humor:
http://www.cromwell.co.uk/KEN9072650K

[Kulka]

and yes, i am psyhopath coz i am not laughing at kurdish problems.
next thing from that turk will be - "deviant" as i guess

[Djembe]

and yes, i am psyhopath coz i am not laughing at kurdish problems.
next thing from that turk will be - "deviant" as i guess

We have an agreement on your psychopath thing.

[Kulka]

typical turk - i dont expect too much from any of you, sooner or later you always show your real face

and "brave" only behind the computer keyboard....

[Djembe]

typical turk - i dont expect too much from any of you, sooner or later you always show your real face

and "brave" only behind the computer keyboard....

What else you expect me to do? This is a forum. People post comments here. Debates. Let me know if there is anything else done in this forum?